Re: [californiadisasters] OT: AZ green SHeet

It appears what really killed them was ultimately a thunderstorm:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/03/us/as-arizona-fires-rage-on-inquiry-into-firefighters-death-focuses-on-wind.html?src=recg

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@gmail.com> wrote:

Two things stick out in my mind: one of the commanders of the fire stated the the strong winds reversed 180 degrees almost immediately and two: ALL their shelters were deployed with some being found inside them and some being found outside them. Those found dead inside their shelters had shelters that were not melted so they must have suffocated which means they were in an area ignition condition with all the oxygen being pulled out of the atmosphere in their immediate vicinity.

In the case of those found dead outside their shelters did the shelters get torn off of them by the wind?

If they were not in the black at the time why did they not start a fire and jump into the black? If they were in the vicinity of an area ignition condition would being in a patch of black have made any difference as far as the oxygenation of the air around them?

My own theory is that regardless of what went wrong and it was probably a convergence of multiple factors as always seems to be the case when things go wrong.

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Rick Bates <HappyMoosePhoto@gmail.com> wrote:

 

I did 34 years on the line.  I too can guess what happened, but this one needs facts before supposition, hearsay and guesswork.  Qualified eyes on the ground, backed up with hard data. 

To have the entire crew deviate far from the well known standards (the 10 + 18) is unthinkable.  It's just not logical; they were better than that.  So I want to know what is discovered when the report comes out. 

If they violated the standards, the remaining question is more difficult; why?  Something must have caused the decisions they made; what were they?

Rick wa6nhc

PS for non-fire folks; 10 standard orders; 18 (there are MANY more) watchouts.  You can cheat on one or two intentionally (knowing you're taking the added risk) but never more than one or two at a time.  Never. 

Tiny iPhone 5 keypad, typos are inevitable

On Jul 2, 2013, at 12:33 AM, DJ Enterprises wrote:

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