Rick, it appears you missed my point or I was not clear. The reviews I mentioned on the contemporary CB radios were legal radios from name brands sold in the USA. You may choose to rely entirely on ham radio, but others are considering alternative methods of radio communication that don't rely on a repeater or a license. Different choices for different people to address different perceived needs.
For reference, I'm an ex-cop, used to work as an SO 911 dispatcher, I'm trained in ARES disaster communications (spent a couple of years as an ARES AEC), retired from a dozen years at the SAR (search and rescue) command post for 100's of incidents where I was Comms as well as Logistics and sometimes Plans, am trained to ICS 400 (and HazMat FRO, etc.), spent several years as CERT program coordinator and instructor for two counties and also was a regional and state rep for CERT and Citizen Corps, spent time volunteering at OES writing operational area emergency plans and representing trained volunteers at operational area meetings with first responders and other resources, spent a decade chairing a national SAR task group, still active developing standards for use in SAR and Homeland Security, still active nationwide as a conference speaker / instructor, etc.
So yes, I understand what you're saying about emergency / disaster radio communications since I've used UHF / VHF for 35 years.
The prepper folks have a different perspective when they stockpile and plan to be self-sufficient for months or years following a vast catastrophic event, and yes that usually includes having firearms, ammo, and a variety of survival skills. They see preparedness needs differently than the average "disaster preparedness" person expecting FEMA to show up in a few days.
Basic prepping today actually reminds me a bit of the Civil Defense era, with some folks building bunkers / bug out locations or at least stocking up a couple of months of water source, food and other supplies. And back then there was even some local militia-type training that some Sheriffs tapped for Reserve officers or "posse" status.
Locally the preppers are primarily on ham bands, but I have a friend out of state living rural who is a serious prepper - they are planning for 2 years self-sufficient to survive the predicted crash of the US dollar losing status as the world currency with resulting chaos - and they see a need to have both licensed amateur radio (I know they have at least a 10m rig, with others in boxes) and CB. And their regional prepper group is primarily on CB. Through their prepper group they have networked with others across the country who also see CB as a useful alternate radio communication.
I suspect they figure CB channels won't be near as congested with few people actually prepared for long term self-sufficiency. Even stockpiled generator fuel will eventually shut down folks who don't have alternate power sources if the power grid is down and fuel is no longer available. My friend even has horses trained to ride, pack, or harness to pull a wagon load of supplies to trade locally when there is no fuel left for vehicles. And archery is a good skill to have so you don't use ammo unnecessarily. Some serious preppers are even learning to build and use an atlatl as a weapon / survival tool.
Like I said, serious preppers have a different perspective. I sure hope serious preppers aren't proved right to have the much longer term preplan or a whole bunch of folks will be struggling to survive.
(If this conversation on radios, preparedness, etc., is going to continue, perhaps it should move to the Discussion forum.)
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Jorene
From: Rick Bates [mailto:HappyMoosePhoto@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:25 AM
To: californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [californiadisasters] Possible new Radio - help needed
Jorene,
I realize that you haven’t had your license very long; I can tell because they are issued in a sequence. I see that you hold a Technician license (actually since Nov 6, 2009 and you’re in the south SJ valley foothills). I also realize that you are intending to do some good and I give you credit for that.
I stand by my statement. LEGAL CB is limited to 5 watts output on AM and 12 watts SSB in the US. Anything beyond that is NOT legal. So any “more powerful contemporary radio” is simply not legal. Neither is modified ham radio for use on that band; CB has channels and hams have bands. Hams are licensed and are given more.
Yes CB can cover some hundreds of miles, even thousands *IF* and only if the band is open (common during the summertime). But do you really expect it to be a reliable and viable communication method with the things that can be heard there on ANY given day?
I was raised in a firehouse and the language was often rough. What you hear on CB would make a Navy Chief blush. That band has been given up on by almost all countries (thanks to a great extent by our FCC not cleaning it up in the 70’s) and it is simply a toilet.
If you want to use more power, move up in frequency to the ham bands and get the proper license. The ten meter band (28-29.7 MHz) also allows repeaters in the upper portion which can better extend coverage areas with reliable saturation, not childish noises and crude gutter talk. Your current Tech license allows you to be there using the FM repeaters, take a listen.
Crossing state lines isn’t a great accomplishment, particularly in the Northeast because there is a greater concentration of states. Neither is crossing a country boundary (I’ve worked some 180 countries, mostly in the last 20 months alone using a variety of different bands and modes).
There are two basic levels of communication required at any major event; one for local (think county/parish/borough) and one for communicating out of the area (think state to state or even Federal ranges). Even if the CB toilet was flushed and cleaned, at best (with a legal radio) it is only good for a few miles of consistent range and a two meter handheld radio (ham) easily has that covered PLUS it can use a repeater or talk to a mobile repeater (I have several of those in the form of dual band radios) or can legally run significantly more power (anything up to 1500 watts which is ~25 db better than the best legal CB radio). It is also possible to set up an Internet link to extend ham coverage anywhere in the world provided there is Internet (I have two of those; Google ‘IRLP’).
If you require interstate communication, there are FAR better bands that provide consistent coverage. These would include 80/75 meters, 60, 40, 30 and even 20 meters depending on the time of day and range needed. If you don’t operate on HF, you don’t understand. If you think that it can’t be done well in a mobile fashion, you’re mistaken and I can prove it. I have a full 80-10 meter station in my house, truck AND RV (yes, three complete HF stations, two of them are very much mobile) and I can set up a portable station with what other pieces I have laying around (it doesn’t take much) should the need arise. I’ve planned for it and have what I need should the need arise.
Most ham repeaters are on commercial sites which usually have at least a one week supply of fuel for the site generator. Most repeaters (ham or commercial) are also backed up by battery (helps to provide cleaner power sources). Some are solar as well. I have a generator here and keep enough fuel for a few days of operations; longer if the need arises. It isn’t rocket science, it’s simple planning. Most major events are essentially over in a couple weeks but if the preppers are right, you’ll need ammunition more than radios.
I’ve been licensed as a ham for over 40 years now and I won’t ever consider CB a viable resource. It is a wasteland of infantile potty mouthed imbeciles and is best ignored. Even the trucking industry has given up on it while the number of truckers on the ham bands is steadily increasing. That isn’t emergency planning, it’s practicality.
If you want reliable communications; ignore CB. Even without the vulgar language here in the US, getting other countries to shut up while there is an emergency would be an impossibility (even assuming they cared enough or understood the language).
CB is a sewer badly in need of flushing; look elsewhere. FRS isn’t much better but the radios are cheaper (3 for $50 on sale) with even better local range than CB. Some CERT groups advocate these for local teams (I say whatever but I’d call hams first if reliable communications were required and that is what I taught in CERT classes). There’s something about those two radio systems that seems to bring out the child in what are normally rational people; stupid abounds.
And while we’re on the topic, training is needed to be an effective communicator, no matter what the radio band (cops, firefighters, ambulance jockeys, hams or anyone else). There are numerous training resources for hams (ARES, RACES are only two; I’m a member of both) and other than the defunct REACT or clubs of the old days, there is nothing useful for CB, because it isn’t a useful place. CB is an international toxic waste dump.
73,
Rick WA6NHC
From: Jorene Downs
Rick, you might want to read some reviews of the more powerful contemporary CB radios, where users are reporting viable and fairly reliable communications hundreds of miles away, even across multiple state lines. Regardless, if the power grid is down long term many ham repeaters won't last long on backup power, or repeater access may be restricted to only authorized ham users such as ARES or RACES. So relying on ham repeaters for personal use may not be a good plan in case local personal communications are limited to more line of sight and pre-organized relays.
I'm not saying I think CB is a better choice than ham radio, just an option to consider. I'm sharing that some serious disaster preppers are choosing to go with stout CB because they think it is a better option for *long* term incident survival radio communications. They are thinking months or even years in their disaster prepping. And yes, some of those preppers with CBs are also ham operators experienced at regularly communicating thousands of miles away.
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Jorene Downs
KJ6JCD
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