As fire fighters which I was for many years in the wild land interface . We dont bend the fire orders and we don't break the 10 watch out situations, for a hotshot crew we did just that . Why enter an area with a approaching thunder head? this is covered in S290 and S390 advance fire weather which all supervisors have to take. I am not going to post what was bent and what was broken. I am not out to blame anyone , this is more for the IC folks who are running the show. We need to say no comms, no fight fire. The hotshot crews need to learn how to say NOOOOOOOO, then have the we can do attitude. Samething happened on the Storm King Mtn fire orders were broken watch outs were broken. These orders and watch outs are put in place to keep us safe. Narrow band radios do not work well in the field this has been a proven fact but has anything been done about it NOOOOOO. # 1 ISSUE on all burn overs that have been reported since the 70's with crews being killed.
To: californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com
From: californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 18:15:54 -0700
Subject: Re: [californiadisasters] Re:[OT} Yarnell recap
On Jul 11, 2014, at 5:11 PM, "Kim Noyes kimnoyes@gmail.com [californiadisasters]" <californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
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Posted by: Apache Trail Dj Co. <t_billman@hotmail.com>
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To: californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com
From: californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 18:15:54 -0700
Subject: Re: [californiadisasters] Re:[OT} Yarnell recap
The GM crew were well trained and experienced; that is well documented. They were a cohesive and effective team and had been in similar situations before.
We won't know why they moved where they did, ever. They must have seen something they thought could be managed or a place of enhanced refuge.
We won't know for sure.
Rick
Tiny iPhone 5 keypad, typos are inevitable
On Jul 11, 2014, at 5:11 PM, "Kim Noyes kimnoyes@gmail.com [californiadisasters]" <californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
It was probably due to a variety of factors (including poor communications, poor management of air resources, your aforementioned firenado, a thunderstorm collapsing and sending out a gust front which was contrary to the prevailing wind direction, etc.) much like in a plane crash where if you take one link out of the chain of events nothing tragic happens. Government FUBAR on several fronts to be sure but there has also been this recurring question of why Granite Mountain moved from a safe place in the black and crossed a brushfield to fight fire in Yarnell when they were not instructed to do so. Some in the biz have suggested their boss as good as he was got stuck in a urban interface FF-ing mindset of trying to save homes given that they worked for the City of Prescott and that more traditional hotshot crews might not have made that same choice. I personally have no opinion on this matter.
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Posted by: Apache Trail Dj Co. <t_billman@hotmail.com>
Be sure to check out our Links Section at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/californiadisasters/links
Please join our Discussion Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/californiadisasters_discussion/ for topical but extended discussions started here or for less topical but nonetheless relevant messages.
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