city been avoided by the combined dispatch. The savings from joining Verdugo
were enough to keep the FD financially viable.
But merger is a whole different situation than cooperative function.
I should think one option for "merger" would be a separate jurisdiction,
something like an "authority" or "district" which takes them out of a city.
Another idea would be for one city to contract for services with another
city (no merger necessary, although this merely shifts the question from
"merger vs. mergee" to "contractor vs. contractee").
Many cities have never reached that "sticking point" because they contracted
with County. The South Bay cities are small enough that this might be an
option worth considering. (Of course, this makes the meaning of "fair" =
"nobody gets to be the leader".)
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevin asato" <kc6pob@yahoo.com>
To: <californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [californiadisasters] Prepare for Carmageddon With Mobile
Disaster Kit
Like I said, they work fine under mutual aid conditions. It's just a mindset
of who will absorb who should the departments merge is a sticking point.
'nuff said.
73,kevinkc6pob
--- On Fri, 7/15/11, newnethboy <kef413@gmail.com> wrote:
From: newnethboy <kef413@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [californiadisasters] Prepare for Carmageddon With Mobile
Disaster Kit
To: californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 8:22 AM
Maybe that's where they went wrong. The Verdugo system has no "lead"
agency.
Decisions concerning cooperative functions are made at meetings of the Fire
Chiefs of the participating cities. Command of incidents follows the
procedures that would apply regardless of the cooperative functions (except
that they're facilitated by the cooperative functions, e.g. common radio
system), and mutual aid and automatic aid are arranged between cities, not
dictated by the "co-op" (although they are influenced by the existence of
the cooperative functions, e.g. it's "easier" to have a neighboring agency
send help if they're on the same dispatch).
"Unified command" is ad hoc, determined by the location of the incident and
applicable mutual aid agreements and State mutual aid policies. (All the
agencies participating in the Verdugo system also have excellent
relationships with surrounding agencies as well as among themselves, the
most notable being LAFD, LACoFD, USFS, and it's not uncommon to have a
unified command of one or more Verdugo cities, LACoFD or LAFD, and USFS.)
(Verdugo is at present only fire, but I see no reason LE couldn't work the
same way.)
Not sure why The South Bay folks can't just let the local (jurisdiction
where incident is happening) PD or FD command system apply to any incident
and have the co-op discuss and agree on strategic policy.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevin asato" <kc6pob@yahoo.com>
To: <californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:56 PM
Subject: RE: [californiadisasters] Prepare for Carmageddon With Mobile
Disaster Kit
It was more of a unified command structure for the areas police forces and
fire agencies independent of each other. The only group within that is
Harbor Patrol as they have both rescue and enforcement duties. Because they
perform mostly rescue work, they have been logically assigned under the
Redondo Fire Department. The turf battle is over which city would serve as
the lead overall agency of the combined departments.
73,
kevinkc6pob
--- On Wed, 7/13/11, Rick Bates <HappyMoosePhoto@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Rick Bates <HappyMoosePhoto@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [californiadisasters] Prepare for Carmageddon With Mobile
Disaster Kit
To: californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 9:29 PM
That's
easy. Cops do crowd control, evacuations, security and make
arrests. Firefighters do the haz mat, fire, medical etc. If they
can't stay on their own side of the fence yet work in a coordinated
manner, that's childish and unprofessional. It's not about
being crowd pleasing, it's about who can do the better job for the task(s)
at hand. While the command structures are similar, they aren't the
same. Firefighters never consider a detention area; cops never consider a
decon area. You don't ask the Army to command a fleet and you don't
ask the Air Force about tank assault vehicles (though you might ask a Marine
either).
However if they're
considering combining police and fire into one agency, that's a really
terrible idea. It never works well. Consider a cop arriving on
scene of a drunk driving vehicle accident, does he treat the injured as a
medic, put out the fire, divert traffic or make an arrest? Nope they can
only do one job well at a time. Besides, the training time alone will
break the budget bank because there is so much annual training required,
they'd
almost never be actually working on the street.
A Chief put into
the one rule over two disciplines won't have loyalties to either side,
nor support from either side. It's purely politics meant to
fertilize the garden.
One discipline,
one agency to do it.
Rick WA6NHC
PS most of the
folks on this list won't know that 73 is ham talk for best regards.
{shh, only the lucky ones know that.}
From: kevin asato
Only problem towards a
unified command structure and possible unified South Bay Police and Fire
Services are civic pride about who would be in charge. It's been a
simmering
topic for the last few years with dwindling city budgets.
73,
kevin
kc6pob
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