Ahem....The "burning water" video clip has been debunked but to explain again: methane in ground water has been around for -- well since people started digging wells. Where it is especially elevated, a methane relief apparatus is required (under local code) to be installed at or before the pressure/storage tank. This allows for the methane to be vented out to the air directly or via a vent such as a sewer gas vent. In this case of the aforementioned burning sink video of EPA and Youtube fame-- the methane vent pipe had been ( deliberately?) plumbed back into the water supply line. If I recall correctly, the homeowner had a fraudulent claim against a mining or quarry operation for "ground water contamination" and this fraud was discovered in connection with those proceedings. IIRC the location of the clip wasn't near a fracking operation. The anti-natural gas movement hijacked the clip claimed it was from fracking and an EPA official--without any validation used the clip in testimony. That is how this viral clip has (wrongly) become apart of the anti-fracking movement. How is it that sensational frauds when they are debunked never see a retraction as sensational as the original fake evidence? Human nature I guess. Speaking of human nature and the original topic of choices made to live beside active volcanoes. Etna hasn't had a Plinean eruption in 300,000 years and perhaps 5 dozen eruptive events in the past 100 years--none serious and only a couple where lava reached all the way down to a town. The last Plinean eruption of Vesuvius was 2000 years ago and the last lava issuing eruption was in 1944. That eruption could have been precipitated/hastened by massive bombing during WWll but can't be proved. The provencial government of Napolli has a plan in the works to build a 30 meter wall to the west of Vesuvius, up slope of major towns to prevent a nuee` ardent from reaching the coast like in the 79AD eruption. This will not stop extended ash falls but would prevent the conditions which caught Pompeii and Hercules.
A few folks may have the option to up and move but entire populations do not. All of Bangledesh IS a flood plain and Western California lives in a very depleted and fragile freshwater resource along with serious seismic risk. The entire country of Japan is in a risk zone. We do not see these populations giving a second thought to living where they do. Perhaps we should ease up on judging others choices based on a threat that we ourselves see only filtered through a narrow pipe of You "Tube" and vignettes of internet postings. While they are interesting that are NOT the whole picture.
.
We've seen many times over various headlines of how "fracking causes earthquakes" only to read them and find that fluid injection into oil fields to rejuvenate them is what was associated with the (minor)quakeing. The only connection was that in a few cases fluids recovered from fracking had been used. Reinjection has been going on for decades and mainly salt water--from hitting saltwater aquifers whilst oil drilling activities was the main source of reinjection fluids. Fracking fluids are too valuable now days so recovery and reuse are where these fluids are going. I've my own very serious concerns about fracking practices--earthquakes are NOT a part of those-- but I won't revisit my concerns, as I see that finally unified standards and monitoring requirements are being established.
The bottomlines are: we should perhas be more skeptical about accepting urban myths and youtube videos and single media reports as "completely or partially truthful" and human nature is multi-faceted and rarely motivated by a single crowning facet to judge other people's choices.
Eman
A few folks may have the option to up and move but entire populations do not. All of Bangledesh IS a flood plain and Western California lives in a very depleted and fragile freshwater resource along with serious seismic risk. The entire country of Japan is in a risk zone. We do not see these populations giving a second thought to living where they do. Perhaps we should ease up on judging others choices based on a threat that we ourselves see only filtered through a narrow pipe of You "Tube" and vignettes of internet postings. While they are interesting that are NOT the whole picture.
.
We've seen many times over various headlines of how "fracking causes earthquakes" only to read them and find that fluid injection into oil fields to rejuvenate them is what was associated with the (minor)quakeing. The only connection was that in a few cases fluids recovered from fracking had been used. Reinjection has been going on for decades and mainly salt water--from hitting saltwater aquifers whilst oil drilling activities was the main source of reinjection fluids. Fracking fluids are too valuable now days so recovery and reuse are where these fluids are going. I've my own very serious concerns about fracking practices--earthquakes are NOT a part of those-- but I won't revisit my concerns, as I see that finally unified standards and monitoring requirements are being established.
The bottomlines are: we should perhas be more skeptical about accepting urban myths and youtube videos and single media reports as "completely or partially truthful" and human nature is multi-faceted and rarely motivated by a single crowning facet to judge other people's choices.
Eman
On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 8:24 PM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <allison.ann@att.net> wrote:
Well that is as may be..one thing I know for sure, the longer we go on at the rate we are going the more expensive these fuels will be and the more difficult it will be to extract them with new or old technologies. Allison
From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@gmail.com>
To: Geology2 <geology2@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Geology2] Better to visit the volcano rather than live beside it (video)
Most resources are harder to get at following the initial extraction. However that does not automatically mean they run out. More oil is found all the time, too. My only point is that we have been hearing about the End of Oil since the 1970's so at what point do we stop listening to the Chicken Littles? Yes, at some point oil runs down (NEVER entirely out) and we are forced in some other direction which we will already be heading in at that point anyway. The problem with fossil fuels is not their running out so much as issues of climate change and simply the basic concept that technologies using them are simply modern versions of primitive technology we should already have abandoned by now anyway in favor of advancement.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <allison.ann@att.net> wrote:
Yes but the reserves are harder to get at.. thus the use of fracking technology. It IS a finite resource. and we are using it up at a great rate.. adn now China is in the game with millions of new drivers every day. Allison
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Geology2] Better to visit the volcano rather than live beside it (video)
Oil reserves are not dwindling and new sources are being found. Anti-oil liberals have been spreading that hoax along for years. I say this from the perspective of hating the fact we still use fossil fuels for energy due to the primitiveness of the technology.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <allison.ann@att.net> wrote:
Yeah...they are trying to produce oil in a time when reserves are dwindling. We need an alternative quick. Allison
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Geology2] Better to visit the volcano rather than live beside it (video)
Yep Allison, you have t in a nutshell - Money talks - and common sense goes out of the window! We have some of the big companies over here trying their damndest to convince ordinary folk that it's good for the Country but as soon as someone challenges them, they start getting belligerent and then things get ugly and it all falls apart.----- Original Message -----Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 3:11 PMSubject: Re: [Geology2] Better to visit the volcano rather than live beside it (video)Can't answer the question about living on a fault but fracking pays off. Many folks who live in the Bible Belt have small farms and land that has been in the family a long time. Allowing fracking on the property pays their bills. Yeah, it also ignites their water and causes a lot of issues but money talks. Allison
From: Happy Chappy <funkyferret@tiscali.co.uk>
To: geology2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Geology2] Better to visit the volcano rather than live beside it (video)
Hmmm! Can't say that some people in America are that smart either, why would any sane person want to live on top of activeearthquake faults either or keep on persisting with this fracking stuff too???LozGo to the Bay of Naples region today and you'll quickly realize they learned NOTHING from 79 A.D.
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:40 AM, Allison Maricelli-Loukanis <allison.ann@att.net> wrote:
Italy is a veteran of volcanoes though..after Pompeii and Herculaneum one would think they would figure it out. Allison
From: Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@gmail.com>
To: Geology2 <geology2@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Geology2] Better to visit the volcano rather than live beside it (video)
Remember the old analogy of comparing placing a frog in pan filled with water sitting on a stove top and turning up the heat gradually it will die but if one brings the water to a boil first and then places the frog in the water it will immediately jump out and save itself... if feels like Etna is slowly ramping up in escalation but it is happening gradually enough that few if any are alarmed.
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