Great post, Kim! Scientific theory cannot be advanced without testing or anecdotal observation.
Mark Lewack
Emergency Actions Coordinator
U.S. Office of Personnel Management
1900 E Street NW, Suite 1300
Washington, DC 20415
(202) 606-5415 (Office)
(301) 807-8943 (Cell #2)
Mark.Lewack@opm.gov
From: californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kim Noyes
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 3:08 PM
To: californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [californiadisasters] Re: California's Snow Not Disappearing Despite Drought
Mark,
Yep, that's the expression I neglected to use. It's a logical fallacy that suggests that because snow-fall rates have not dropped (yet) in one mountain range (Sierra Nevada) in in one state (California) of one nation (U.S.A.) on one continent (North America) in one hemisphere (Northern or Western depending upon your perspective) over the span of just the past 140 years that necessarily the whole world everywhere else is not warming.
Matters of faith tap into things not rooted in but often intruding into this universe. We already know from String Theory that there are many universes and they are all right here in front of us but we simply can't see them. That being said, the universe we currently and quite temporarily live in is regulated by cause and effect relationships driven by observable laws and phenomenon even if one is apt (as I am) to believe something transcendent (God) created it all and is running it from outside our direct and very ephemeral viewpoint.
Kimmer
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Lewack, Mark A. <Mark.Lewack@opm.gov> wrote:
Politely speaking:
I think they call it a logical fallacy and at best fuzzy logic. But when you boil it down to basics, rhetoric by itself does not disprove science and in some cases does nothing to enhance science either. J
In order for something to be irrefutable it has to contain absolute truth. If a=b and b=c then a=c, given that all conditions are true. If one of the conditions is false or rather can be proven false, then the conclusion must be false. This is the problem I have with logic and reason, it is too restrictive. I don’t want to get into dogma or religious doctrine, but some things you just have to accept as true, even if they are not provable – yet J
Mark Lewack
Emergency Actions Coordinator
U.S. Office of Personnel Management
1900 E Street NW, Suite 1300
Washington, DC 20415
(202) 606-5415 (Office)
(301) 807-8943 (Cell #2)
From: californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kim Noyes
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 1:46 PM
To: californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [californiadisasters] Re: California's Snow Not Disappearing Despite Drought
Mike,
What you are suggesting is that this disproves that there is any climate change occurring if I read you correctly. If that is the case your logic is flawed. Taking that same principle then one could derive from it that in a particular election pitting Candidate A against Candidate B that since a particular precinct voted overwhelmingly in favor of Candidate B then necessarily Candidate B won the election when in fact the precinct in question did not follow the election-wide trend which saw Candidate A win in a landslide.
Furthermore, often what seems contradictory in science to a particular truth actually makes sense when one digs deeper. For example, one would expect in a warming climate that California would be getting warmer (and it is) and one would expect that to apply to the coastline as well as the inland areas (but it is not). Actually, it appears that the California coastline is cooling which seems to defy the global trend (which is very real). After a bit of deeper digging researchers have figured out the why of this trend and it actually is in line with the overall trend as opposed to being an aberration (and there are those, too, but they don't disprove anything). What researchers have found and good old fashioned understanding of how weather and climate works will tell you is that as the inland areas get hotter they will (and are) generating stronger thermal lows over the inland valleys and deserts which means an even stronger surge of hot air upwards. This in turn creates an even stronger vacuum at the surface as air moves upward thus pulling air in from the coastal regions even more strongly. This in turn means more of that cold air from the offshore areas (where upwelling from the abyssal depths of the Pacific Ocean and cold currents from the Northern Pacific) cool the air directly above it and that air in turn gets pulled into the coast making the coast even colder while the inland areas are getting hotter. See how complicated these things get?
Kimmer
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Michael <mike_burgess@yahoo.com> wrote:
Uh oh. real science. Hard copy records. No hanging chad....
--- In californiadisasters@yahoogroups.com, Lin Kerns <linkerns@...> wrote:
>
> California's Snow Not Disappearing Despite Drought
>
> ScienceDaily (Mar. 12, 2012) — During some winters a significant amount of
> snow falls on parts of California. During other winters -- like this one
> (so far) -- there is much less snow. But more than 130 years of snow data
> show that over time snowfall in California is neither increasing nor
> decreasing.....
> ------------------------------
>
> *Story Source:*
>
> The above story is reprinted from
> materials<http://www.newswise.com/articles/california-s-snow-not-disappearing-despite-drought>provided
> by
> *University of Alabama Huntsville* <http://www.uah.edu/>, via
> Newswise<http://www.newswise.com/>.
>
>
> *Note: Materials may be edited for content and length. For further
> information, please contact the source cited above.*
>
--
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